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Evie
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Joined: 24 Oct 2008
Posts: 3569


Location: Kenilworth, Warwickshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:21 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Goldbug - keep your hair on!   Very Happy

I agree with RejectAmidHair, that Authors is no more important than any other category; we all have our favourites, but the point of tidying it up was not being bombarded with too many headings on the front page.

I am sure a bit of tweaking in lots of areas (sounds painful!!) would be a good idea, and as I say I did send everyone an email a while ago and asked for people to let me know if they had any feedback to offer.  I do find some things hard to find myself now, so I know it's not perfect, but if everyone asks to have their favourite category given extra special prominence, that won't get us anywhere!   Wink


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goldbug



Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 48



PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is poetry so important today ?
Granted in the  18th cent  it was very important and maybe poetry reached its zenith in the romantic era when Byron  was a hero and the equivalent of our modern pop stars.
Maybe Lennon and MacCartney can be considered poets ?

But  thru the  19th century poetry was on decline whilst the novelist... Dickens.. Thackery  etc  were celebrated.

Maybe another prominent section would be...
"Poets and Playwrites... their biogs... life and times."
Did  Bill Shakeshaft really start off as a poet?  and then realized that playwriting was where the action is and drifted to that genre ?

so you have two sections..
"Novelists.....their Biogs... Life and Times"

"Poets and Playwrites... their Biogs... Life and Times."


That takes care of  most  writers...
Oscar Wilde  I guess would fall into the  Poets and Playwrite  section.


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TheRejectAmidHair



Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 3864


Location: Staines, Middlesex

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Goldbug,

I don’t think literary importance can be determined by levels of popularity. If it could, we must consider, say, Dan Brown to be a more important author than, say, Toni Morrison. No doubt he is from a commercial perspective, but we are speaking of literary importance here.

It is true that poetry is not as popular as novels. But I don’t see that says anything about literary importance of poets relative to that of novelists.

I don’t agree that poetry was “on the decline” in the 19th century. I don’t see much evidence of decline in a century that produced Tennyson, Hopkins, Browning, Arnold, Swinburne, Hardy, Yeats, Dickinson, Whitman, etc. And that is just to consider poetry in the English language.

I would be interested in the opinion of others, but I most certainly would not want to see this board elevating novels above other types of writing. To do so may even be considered insulting to those of us who do value poetry and drama.

(And since you ask, I suppose Lennon & McCartney may be considered poets: if it ain’t prose, it’s poetry – but whether or not it’s good poetry is another matter. However good they may have been as lyricists, theirs would not be among the first names that would come to mind were I to list major post-war poets. And as for Shakespeare, he wrote plays containing dramatic verse from the very beginning of his career. )




Last edited by TheRejectAmidHair on Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MikeAlx



Joined: 17 Nov 2008
Posts: 2104


Location: Seaford, East Sussex

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say poetry and song-lyric writing are different disciplines. It's very rare for song lyrics to work well read simply as poems; it's my personal opinion that poems often don't make for great songs either - though Schubert fans would probably beg to differ.



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TheRejectAmidHair



Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 3864


Location: Staines, Middlesex

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeAlx wrote:
I would say poetry and song-lyric writing are different disciplines. It's very rare for song lyrics to work well read simply as poems; it's my personal opinion that poems often don't make for great songs either - though Schubert fans would probably beg to differ.


... as inded would fans of Tagore, who composed literally thousands of songs, the lyrics of which are among the most breathtakingly beautiful lines of poetry I've come across.

But generally, I do agree with you: writing lyrics for sngs and writing poetry are indeed different disciplines.


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Chibiabos83
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Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 3367


Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of Schubert's best songs are settings of second-rate poems, Mike. The source texts of Winterreise and Die Schöne Müllerin are poems by the perfectly fine but hardly spectacular Wilhelm Müller - and yet the results are universally acknowledged as among the greatest art songs ever written.

McCartney has published original poetry in recent years, of course, to much derision ("Sadness isn't sadness, it's happiness in a black jacket", etc.) - though it's hard to believe his published output is inferior to Lennon's, whose In His Own Write and A Spaniard in the Works are execrable. They were better when they stuck to the songwriting, I think.


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TheRejectAmidHair



Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 3864


Location: Staines, Middlesex

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chibiabos83 wrote:
Some of Schubert's best songs are settings of second-rate poems, Mike. The source texts of Winterreise and Die Schöne Müllerin are poems by the perfectly fine but hardly spectacular Wilhelm Müller - and yet the results are universally acknowledged as among the greatest art songs ever written.


But then again, there are those Heine settings in Schwanengesang - songs as wonderful as any the old boy ever composed, and poetry which, I gather, is of the highest quality.


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goldbug



Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 48



PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is this a literary or a music forum ?


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Chibiabos83
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Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 3367


Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two aren't mutually exclusive in this case, goldbug. We're discussing musical settings of poems, as a result of your interesting invocation of Lennon and McCartney.



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