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Castorboy

British General Election

If you close your eyes and listen to David Cameron does anyone else think he sounds like a young George Cole? The intonation, the seemingly casual way he talks, the accent in particular, remind me so much of Cole. Their eduction and background was probably different but were they born in the same part of the UK?
Apple

Its quite funny you should say that as in the leaders debates we have had on the tv he came across in my opinion like a con man telling people what they want to hear in fact after the first one I said he sounded like a used car salesman.  Which is slightly amusing really considering the role George Cole was famous for!! Very Happy
MikeAlx

Somebody remarked recently that he looks like Henry from Thomas the Tank Engine and friends!
Apple

Very Happy
Apple

Did anyone see Gordon Brown put his foot well and truely in it today, he was in Rochdale and a woman started shouting to him, he went over to her to answer her questions shook her hand and said she was a good woman, she left happy saying she was going to vote for him etc.. about 10 seconds later he was caught ranting saying it was a disaster, and who brought her to him, and that she was a bigot!

Now first of all looking at the footage he went to her, and quite frankly that outburst says it all it shows what utter contempt he has for the man (or in this case woman) on the street, she was an ordinary woman who wanted to make the most of her 5 seconds with the PM and ask about the issues which concerned her.  It confirms the stories that he is a control freak and because he felt he was not in  control in that situation he spat the dummy and started blaming everyone else.  The best bit for me though was in the radio station where he was asked about it and he tried to deny it to start with saying if he had said something to her, then Jeremy Vine said I have the tape here and played it, I thought he was going to pass out he went deathly white and put his head in his hands.  Needless to say damage limitation went into overdrive and he was sent back personally to apologise, he spent 45 mins with her and came out grinning inanely saying he was a repentent sinner...yeah right!! more like trying to save his own skin!!

Speaking as a person who has never said anything about anyone behind their back that I wouldn't say to their faces I find that sort of thing cowardly and totally despicable!!
Caro

Speaking as a person who has never said anything about anyone behind their back that I wouldn't say to their faces I find that sort of thing cowardly and totally despicable!!

Are you quite sure about that, Apple?  I can't imagine a person who doesn't talk about people behind their backs in a way they wouldn't to their face.  Just ordinary little chats and gossips about their personalities, speculations about events in their lives, hundreds of little things I say daily about people I wouldn't expect to say in their presence necessarily.  I would never call someone bigoted to their face and perhaps I wouldn't use that word behind their back either, but I might call them other less than flattering things that I wouldn't offend them with head-on.  But even quite nice things I wouldn't necessarily say to someone when I might say it about them.  I quite often describe someone as 'lovely' but I wouldn't embarrass them by saying it to their face.

I would hope politicians could speak privately in a way that is different from their generally very polished public persona.  

Cheers, Caro.
Hector

I agree entirely Caro. Well put. Let's not forget that the media have been waiting for this for weeks and have absolutely jumped at the chance to attack him.

I would imagine that if we put microphones on the other two leaders we would hear some choice words (as would be the same with me).
Sandraseahorse

I've decided to delete my post as I don't wish to see this board turn into a party political talking shop - there are plenty of other websites for that.
Apple

Caro Wrote:
Quote:
Are you quite sure about that, Apple?  I can't imagine a person who doesn't talk about people behind their backs in a way they wouldn't to their face


I am very sure about that Caro, I am known for it, and not to mention very proud of it, everyone who knows me personally say that I am the only person they know who they know exactly where they stand with them, because if you piss me off I will tell you, if you upset me or hurt my feelings I will tell you and if I don't like you - believe me I will tell you, and vice versa if I think you have done something good or I like you and think you're a good person I will tell you. I don't mince my words and I tell it like it is, I believe it is dishonest to be nice to someone to their faces and then slag them off behind their back not to mention cowardly.  

Hector Wrote
Quote:
I agree entirely Caro. Well put. Let's not forget that the media have been waiting for this for weeks and have absolutely jumped at the chance to attack him.

I would imagine that if we put microphones on the other two leaders we would hear some choice words (as would be the same with me).


I have no doubt they would, I'm pretty convinced that most politicians yesterday were thinking there for the grace of god go I!  In fact one tory MP said as much on the news at one point yesterday.  Which just goes to show what utter contempt they hold the British public that they are two faced enough to stand there smiling and being nice to people to their faces because they want their votes but privately they couldn't really give a damn about them which is worrying when they are supposed to be representing their interests - how can they do that if they are slagging them off in private.  Yes the press have been waiting for a situation like this to happen and its no surprise that it was a Sky tv mic he had on him and them who broke the story but the fact remains he shouldn't have sunk as low to have a tantrum and call someone names just because he felt he hadn't controlled the situation he was in - that is just low and very childish.  Also there was nothing that she said which suggested she was a bigot,  so it was also incorrect as well as downright nasty and proves that there is parts of Mr Browns character which isn't too savoury and this is a man who represents this country abroad.

Sandraseahorse Wrote:
Quote:
I've decided to delete my post as I don't wish to see this board turn into a party political talking shop - there are plenty of other websites for that.


Thats your personal right to do that but the thread was already there and I just added to it !  Smile

Its in chat if the admins have a problem with it I'm sure they will delete it or lock it!! I don't have any political allegences either way, in fact I am totally disillutioned with the whole political system I see it as corrupt and rotten to the core - and yes I have said this to the canvassers/potential MP's who have come knocking at my door.
Caro

I'm not too keen to continue this discussion either, but feel I should respond.  I don't really want to since this post may sound critical and I don't like to be critical of people.  But you don't sound a very comfortable person to be around, Apple.  I can think of a few people who tell things like they are and they are people I have some respect for, because they are always very hard-working and useful, but I don't really want to spend a lot of time in their company.  My son is rather like this and he is very tiring to be around - apart from sometimes being offensive.  He calls it being honest. I heard my husband tell him once, "Your mother (me) never tells lies, but she doesn't go round offending people either."

Though you would think I tell lies by omission, which I do.  I don't go out of my way to tell people unpleasant truths or what I am thinking at any second.  Perhaps that just means that my thoughts are sometimes nastier than yours.  

Cowardliness never seems to me the worst of sins though it is always spoken as a really bad thing to be, I am not sure why.  

Anyway I think Gordon Brown may have been incompetent and he may have been wrong, but what he seems to have said and done seems quite human and normal to me.  In fact generally when Brown is criticised it seems to be for something that shows he is in some ways quite an ordinary person (making spelling mistakes in a letter of condolence, making off the cuff comments that aren't quite what people want to hear etc).  People seem to prefer politicians not to be honest about what they think and feel.  

Cheers, Caro.
Castorboy

Because this May election brings the prospect of a change of government , it reminds me of the 1979 one. We have photos at home which show our daughters clustered round the road sign for Pity Me in Durham rugged up in coats, scarves and gloves with the snow falling! Maybe snow in May has become common since then but for us it was quite a shock.

I followed the debate between the party leaders last night and I still think that at times Cameron pronounces certain words like George Cole.
Apple

Caro Wrote:
Quote:
I'm not too keen to continue this discussion either, but feel I should respond.  I don't really want to since this post may sound critical and I don't like to be critical of people.  But you don't sound a very comfortable person to be around, Apple.  I can think of a few people who tell things like they are and they are people I have some respect for, because they are always very hard-working and useful, but I don't really want to spend a lot of time in their company.  My son is rather like this and he is very tiring to be around - apart from sometimes being offensive.  He calls it being honest. I heard my husband tell him once, "Your mother (me) never tells lies, but she doesn't go round offending people either."

Though you would think I tell lies by omission, which I do.  I don't go out of my way to tell people unpleasant truths or what I am thinking at any second.  Perhaps that just means that my thoughts are sometimes nastier than yours.  


I don't want to carry this on any more either as the original purpose of the thread - the forthcoming election is being lost but I am going to reply to you Caro as you have made some very valid points which I wish to acknowledge and raised a couple of questions which deserve an answer. If you want any further discussion you can PM me as its not fair to derail the thread any further.

You are just as entitled as me to post your opinion on anything Caro! and I appreciate your honesty, you can be as critical as you like, I can take constructive criticism, and that in my opinion after reading your post is what it is, yes I know my approach to life isn't everyones cup of tea, but thats the way I am if you appreciate my honesty thats fine if you don't then fair enough you don't have to. I don't go out of my way to offend people or upset them, yes maybe sometimes I could put things a little more tactfully and believe me I do try to be tactful and I know I can come across as rude sometimes because of my down to earth say it like it is attitude, but I always try to explain myself and I will always admit when I am wrong. The thing is though I generally find the people I upset and who are offended by what I have said to them are the ones who don't like hearing the truth but would prefer people to tell them what they want to hear.

Which leads me back to the original post I made, Gordon did not want to hear the views of that lady, because she was being critical of him and the government and raised some valid points which he did not want to answer she was speaking the truth, there is a huge debt which we our children and grandchildren are going to paying for for years, there are a lot of Eastern Europeans in Britain, she was voicing her opinion as she is entitled to do and speaking the truth and he did not want to hear it or respond but because he wanted her to vote for him he had to respond, and be nice to her, but the point I was making is he can call someone a good woman shake her hand and smile leaving her happy then 10 seconds later be caught saying (incorrectly) that she was a bigot, blame everyone else (I am concerned about the fate of poor Sue!) for apparently letting him get into that situation and generally acting like a spoilt child because he felt he wasn't in control. Then later we had the farce of him going back to apologise, which was the Labour PR machine going into overdrive, he wasn't sorry for what he said he was just sorry he got caught saying it, and I am pretty convinced that the majority of politicians that day were thinking there for the grace of god go I, so how can these people represent us if they hold us with such contempt that they say one thing to our faces and the oposite behind our backs and do we really want someone with such unsavoury traits in his character and who acts like that after an encounter with an ordinary person to to be in charge and represent us abroad.

Caro also wrote:
Quote:
Cowardliness never seems to me the worst of sins though it is always spoken as a really bad thing to be, I am not sure why.


I am a person who is not afraid to speak their mind and and stand up for what I believe in and fight for it sometimes, I am also someone who will own up if I have done something bad or wrong even if I know it will get me into trouble I won't let anyone else take the rap for something I am responsible for. If you don't stand up for yourself no one else will and you end up being trampled on and taken for granted, there are people out there who won't do that but whine and whinge that this that and the other is wrong but don't have the backbone to change things or a least stand up and say I don't agree with that, if you don't want to to right a wrong or say if something has been said or done, then thats fine but don't bitch about it afterwards, or try and blame other people for your shortcomings or mistakes - Which again leads me back to my orginal post, I wonder what kind of day poor Sue had after that? Mr Brown felt he hadn't controlled the situation and tried to blame someone else for it using his position of authority to pass the buck onto someone else to take the blame instead of himself and that is cowardly and confirms the reports of him being a bully and control freak, and we all know that bullies are cowards, that is why being a coward in that sense is a bad thing in my opinion.

I hope that clarifies everything for you Caro, and once again thank you for being so honest!  Smile
Apple

Castorboy Wrote:
Quote:
I followed the debate between the party leaders last night and I still think that at times Cameron pronounces certain words like George Cole.

Very Happy

I actually missed the last debate last night I wasn't feeling very well and went to bed early was it any good? who in your opinion made the most sense?
Apple

Came across this and thought it was rather amusing ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politic...r/01/labour-gordon-brown-hard-man

Obviously an April 1st joke but after the recent events its ironically funny - check out the gallery of spoof election posters at the side of the main story!
Apple

Well I have been to vote! I was also quite surprised by what I found, normally the polling stations are deserted and the people behind the desks look like they have lost the will to live but the place was positively buzzing today!!
Castorboy

Now the polls have closed I can reveal that the UK expert on politics who talked to us last night on a chat show was Lord Jeffrey Archer no less! He was introduced as an ex-MP and million selling author (Kane and Abel and First Among Equals?) When asked who would win he said it will be a hung Parliament with the biggest problem for the new government being the huge deficit of 167 billion pounds.

The other news programme I heard was the Radio 4 Today one. One of the experts ventured the opinion that this was the Silver Blaze election with reference to the story where the dog that did not bark in the night was disregarded by everybody except Holmes. The equivalent to the dog was that deficit and the three leaders were disregarding the need to tell the electorate where the cuts in spending were to be come for fear of losing votes. Well they would wouldn’t they?
Apple

Castorboy - Spot on, if the Parties told you honestly what they were going to do none of them would get any votes!!

I think the result of this election has said that loud and clear the British Public have have said in a very loud voice none of the above! the overwhelming view is they are all as bad as one another  and in this result the electorate have banged their heads together and said work work together for the good of the country, but somehow I can't see it working out that way and happening though!!
TheRejectAmidHair

Well, I stayed up watching the election coverage until the BBC decided to interview Joan Collins to get some in-depth political analysis. At that point, I decided it was time to go to bed. It just goes to show – Joan may be in her 70s, but she can still get men into bed! Wink
Hector

I saw that bit with Joan Collins also Himadri and it was utterly dreadful. Personally, I thought the whole BBC election "party boat" was misjudged.

Anyone read Andrew Rawnsley's The End of the Party? There's a slim chance that the title was a little presumptious.
Sandraseahorse

Quote:
Well, I stayed up watching the election coverage until the BBC decided to interview Joan Collins to get some in-depth political analysis. At that point, I decided it was time to go to bed. It just goes to show – Joan may be in her 70s, but she can still get men into bed!  


Very Happy Best comment on election night.
Chibiabos83

Yes, I wish you'd been on the boat, Himadri! Much better value than Kirstie Allsopp. I just hope we weren't paying for it...
Castorboy

The headlines in the UK papers had some excellent quips. I liked Dave's New World'. But there must be something about Clegg. The only one I can think of is Marina's cry from Last of the Summer Wine when she says Ooh the Norman (Nick) Clegg that was!
As for the new Labour leader I have heard of Strike up the Milliband!
Sandraseahorse

The Labour-supporting Mirror referred to the Conservative-LibDem coalition as ConDem-nation. I'm sure a lot of journalists wished it had been a ConDom pact so that they could make the inevitable puns about splits.
Apple

The brave new world has now started with an extraordinary love in yesterday in the Downing Street garden I hope it works for  the sake of the country and the dissenters on both sides  try to work together and put their differences aside for the good of the country rather than personal gain oneupmanship and party dogma. The thing I have noticed  the main problem is going to be with the media, already they are trying to put words in the mouths of the MP's and suggest that there is dessent and rumblings and goading them into trying to say that they don't think it will work. The Beeb were talking yesterday lunchtime to MP - Bill Cash notorious Euro skeptic and the interviewer - John Sopel it was, was constantly trying to draw him in to say he didn't think it would work, he didn't succeed though, they dragged in Michael Heseltine as well and they were trying to get him to say he wasn't happy about it but he seemed very positive, in fact the only Tory I have heard who wasn't altogether positive about it was Malcolm Rifkind and that was the other day when Nick Clegg was talking to Labour.

After seeing that I am sure given time the papers are going to be like a pack of rabid terriers the slightest hint of a problem they will jump on it, magnify it it out of all proportion and keep on with it and I have a feeling that whatever goes wrong the Murdock mouthpiece will be making Nick Clegg and the Lib Dems the scapegoats.

This  morning rumours are abound that VAT is going to rise and the beeb are almost rubbing their hands and insinuating that this could cause friction in the coalition!

I would just like to finally add, that I was (and quite surprised I was by it too) genuinely moved by Gordon Brown's departure on Tuesday, despite everything that speech has to go down as one of if not his greatest, we saw the front fall away and finally saw a human being behind the politician.  I found the pictures of him walking hand in hand down Downing Street very moving.  I always admired Brown for refusing to use his children as a PR tool despite stories that his advisors on many occasions begged him to be photographed with them. It seems fitting the time he relented and allowed them to be seen and photographed was the one time he had nothing to gain from it.
Evie

It was lovely to see those little boys - he has managed very well to keep them out of the public eye, and they seemed a very affectionate, happy family.  I expect GB will have a happier time away from the responsibility, however much it hurts at the moment!  I think he should work for a charity or something like that - think he'd be really good.
Mikeharvey

Every day I get irritated by media interviewers trying to put words into politicians' mouths, to make them say something newsworthy or something they'll regret.  That is, if the person being interviewed (grilled) can get a word in edgeways.  Sarah Montague on 'Today'  is especially irritating for this.  She asks a question then interrupts with another question and talks over her interviewees until they just give up and shut up.  I always cheer when the interviewee remonstrates. And there is often a feeling from the tone of the interviewer that the interviewee is a downright villain, obviously duplicitous, and needs to be unmasked in public.  One of the interviewers on PM (BBC Radio 4 , 5pm) is especially annoying for his accusatory tone. Is it Eddie Mair?
Apple

Evie - I think he is happier already! If you get chance if its shown tonight check out the news as this afternoon Gordon Brown was out and about in his consituency in Scotland and the cameras were there following him and his whole demeanour was totally different he was with Sarah of course, but he actually looked happy, he was smiling properly - not that stupid tight grin which always gave you the impression he didn't know how to smile he looked relaxed and was talking to the people he was meeting and greeting in a totally almost animated way which I have never seen before it was quite remarkable to watch it was like watching a totally different person.
Evie

I saw some of that, Apple, and he did seem to have a lighter step and an easier manner!  I also saw him go to a college and joke that he was thinking of signing up for their course in communication skills.  HIGNFY was a bit cruel to him tonight, but funny nevertheless.
Green Jay

Evie wrote:
It was lovely to see those little boys - he has managed very well to keep them out of the public eye, and they seemed a very affectionate, happy family.  I expect GB will have a happier time away from the responsibility, however much it hurts at the moment!  


My thoughts exactly! I expect Sarah was cheering when it looked like they'd have to pack their bags and move back to lovely Fife! Just in time for summer and those long, long evenings.
Green Jay

Apple wrote:
Evie - I think he is happier already! If you get chance if its shown tonight check out the news as this afternoon Gordon Brown was out and about in his consituency in Scotland and the cameras were there following him and his whole demeanour was totally different he was with Sarah of course, but he actually looked happy, he was smiling properly - not that stupid tight grin which always gave you the impression he didn't know how to smile he looked relaxed and was talking to the people he was meeting and greeting in a totally almost animated way which I have never seen before it was quite remarkable to watch it was like watching a totally different person.


I so agree, Apple. I  saw some film of him the next day and he really seemed to have shifted a load off his shoulders. I hated a round-up on Have I Got News for You of all his most unfortunate moments on film - fixed grins and fallen faces. They could have done it to the whole cabinet but concentrated solely on Gordon. I do think they were unjustly punishing him for not being a public smoothie. We have another of those now! Did anyone see that ghastly scene outside No 10  where Dave made a speech while Sam stood there in the freezing cold evening, in stack heels and a thin silk dress, being the perfect (pregnant) mate? Oh dear, what a long way we women have come in politics! Sad
MikeAlx

My wife pointed out, when "Call-me-Dave" & Sam were going hand-in-hand into Downing Street, that Sam had the "dominant" hand-hold position. I suggested that this might have been coached for the occasion. Normally leaders are expected to exhibit alpha-male body language, but given the circumstances a certain degree of humility was perhaps the intention.

I do think we have another media monkey in the manner of Blair. Brown was refreshingly WYSIWYG, but it obviously doesn't pay off!
Apple

Green Jay Wrote:
Quote:
They could have done it to the whole cabinet but concentrated solely on Gordon. I do think they were unjustly punishing him for not being a public smoothie. We have another of those now! Did anyone see that ghastly scene outside No 10  where Dave made a speech while Sam stood there in the freezing cold evening, in stack heels and a thin silk dress, being the perfect (pregnant) mate? Oh dear, what a long way we women have come in politics!
I can't abide this  I really can't if they can't succeed on their own merits they shouldn't be there - using your pregnant wife to try and gain a few votes and her allowing herself to be paraded round like a lap dog there is a difference between showing moral support and being a submissive stereotypical doormat.

Mike Wrote:
Quote:
I do think we have another media monkey in the manner of Blair. Brown was refreshingly WYSIWYG, but it obviously doesn't pay off!
I could not agree more, I said as soon as the campaigning started that he reminded me too much of Tony Blair - too flashy and media orientated in fact I used the words slimy used car salesman after seeing him at one of the debates. I also can't help thinking he is just a dazzling media friendly front man and the real brains behind the operation are in the form of former leader of the party William Hague.

Having said all that I hope he and Nick Clegg can make this thing work for the good of the country.
Apple

Well...it didn't take long did it, the old spector of expenses raises its ugly head again and claims another casualty!! Bloody shame really as David Laws is a clever bloke who seemed to know what he was doing!!

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